Interview with Gay Man about Circumcision vs Intact

In 30 plus years of clinical work in Australia this is the first time this subject was initiated by a patient.

Patient A a gay man, is suffering from Major Depressive Disorder, and having problems in his relationship.  The Same Sex Marriage vote, prompted his partner to propose marriage.  Rather than jubilation, he felt more depressed.  Much time was spent trying to ascertain the cause of worsening depression symptoms?  Was it a biological exacerbation of symptoms and a deterioration of a clinical disorder vs environmental, was there something wrong in the relationship?

In conducting an audit of the relationship, he stated he loved his partner but that he is obsessing that the sex with his partner wasn't as good as he would like it to be.  He himself is Intact but his partner is circumcised.  He stated he always preferred to be with intact men, but that his partner was the first man that he felt a deep connection with, and didn't think the circumcision was a deal breaker.  He stated that he always found the biggest negative about sex with a circumcised man was receptive anal intercourse, it tended to be much more painful than pleasurable, when compared to being with an intact man.  He stated that other forms of sex with a circumcised man were just as good and enjoyable, though he just slightly preferred to have sex with an intact man. 

We discussed what was important in a long term relationship, and he agreed sex was not the most important thing, and that long term commitment, love and companionship were the most important ingredients.  He didn't believe painful receptive anal intercourse was a deal breaker.

In conclusion, Treatment is ongoing, and the biological symptoms of the disorder appear to distort his perceptions and are making his thinking much more negative than usual.  We are focussing on the positives, creating hope for the future, and he believes he will accept the marriage proposal, as the person he loves is far more important than the sex.  If biological symptoms of depression do not improve, medication will be considered.

Egyptian Doctors Claim Uncircumcised women have smelly vaginas which are prone to infection

The following is a text I copied from the website below.

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/45528

My understanding is these were comments made by Egyptian Doctors when asked to comment on this subject. This is what these Medical Doctors believe about the health benefits of female circumcision, and I will post my comments in Bold Italics

Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:

The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision. Lack of circumcision or poor hygeine?, nothing a good wash couldnt cure I'm sure!  

Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse. I doubt its annoying to the husband, but really has it got anything to do with the husband, what about the woman? Does she not count here? She might enjoy a sensitive clitoris it might give her pleasure, to me it sounds paternalistic controlling and mysoginistic, but then again I'm just a humanistic westerner what would I know?

Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain. PAIN? Sure you not mixing that up with PLEASURE?

Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation. I think spasms of the clitoris are what is commonly known as an orgasm! Inflammation, I think its called AROUSAL where I come from!!!!!!

Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire. This is the real reason for female circumcision, the control of female sexuality? But again this is a basic scientific error and shows how genital cutting causes even the most intelligent people to become scientifically illiterate imbeciles.  Female sexual desire, the physical component,  like male sexual desire is hormonal caused by estrogen in women and testosterone in men, then there is also the psychological component to sexual desire.

Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:

Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the clitoris is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy” i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the clitoris) and its nerves. I geuss these are deeply held religious beliefs and I wont comment further.

From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).

The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):

For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups. Sound like excellent rationalisations if you want to believe that sort of thing, just a minor ommission, HUMAN RIGHTS!!.

Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:

It takes away excessive libido from women Surely a human rights issue! And again a biological fallacy, ignoring the hormonal aspect of libido, estrogen produced by the ovaries and nothing to do with genitalia.

It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce. Heard this before, nothing a good rinse with fresh water couldnt cure.

It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections Is this truly the case? If so, UTI's are easily treatable with antibiotics and without  need for circumcision.

It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system. Is this truly the case? If so, Conventional medicine can treat without circumcision.

In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:

With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted. Is this truly the case? This whole argument that female circumcision has health benefits sounds just the same as the male circumcision arguments from the USA. If you are truly offended by reading these firmly held beliefs, then you and I are similar. However, if you are offended by these arguments yet believe they are valid in the case of male circumcision, then I say you are a hypocrite, and inconsistent!

As a closing statement I'd like to say, That these arguments in favor of female circumcision might sound primitive, barbaric and simplistic, & easily countered as I have done. But to me the arguments in favor of male circumcision sound just as primitive, barbaric & simplistic I see no difference. So as those that practice & defend femcirc sound from another planet, those that practice & defend male circ sound exactly the same to me (from the planet Uranus).